#13729: "Accidental discards after a 10 is played"
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Detailní popis
• Prosím, zkopíruj a vlož hlášení o chybě, které vidíš na monitoru, pokud to lze.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Prosím popiš, co jsi měl v úmyslu udělat, co jsi udělal a co se nakonec stalo
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Google Chrome v77
• Prosíme, zkopíruj/vlož text zobrazený v angličtině namísto tvého jazyka. Pokud máš snímek obrazvky zobrazující tuto chybu (doporučujeme!), můžeš použít Imgur.com pro nahrání obrázku a pak odkaz na tento obrázek na Imguru zkopírovat a vložit sem.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Je tento text k dispozici v systému pro překládání? Pokud ano, byl přeložen před více než 24 hodinami?
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Google Chrome v77
• Prosím popiš svůj návrh přesně a konzistentně, aby bylo snadné pochopit, co máš na mysli.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Google Chrome v77
• Co bylo zobrazeno na monitoru, když došlo k tvému zablokování? (Černá obrazovka? Část herního prostředí? Hlášení o chybě?)
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Google Chrome v77
• Která část pravidel nebyla dodržena adaptací hry na BGA
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Je vidět porušení pravidel na záznamu hry? Pokud ano, ve kterém tahu?
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Google Chrome v77
• O jakou herní akci ses pokoušel/a?
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Co ses pokoušel/a udělat, abys spustil/a tuhle herní akci?
• Co se stalo, když ses o tuto akci pokusil/a (vyskočila chybová hláška, lišta ve hře, ...)?
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Google Chrome v77
• V jaké fázi hry problém nastal (jaký byl poslední herní pokyn)?
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Co se stalo, když ses pokusil/a udělat akci (chybová hláška, oznámení stavového řádku hry, ...)?
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Google Chrome v77
• Prosím popište vyobrazený problém. Pokud máš snímek obrazvky zobrazující tuto chybu (doporučujeme!), můžeš použít Imgur.com pro nahrání obrázku a pak odkaz na tento obrázek na Imguru zkopírovat a vložit sem.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Google Chrome v77
• Prosíme, zkopíruj/vlož text zobrazený v angličtině namísto tvého jazyka. Pokud máš snímek obrazvky zobrazující tuto chybu (doporučujeme!), můžeš použít Imgur.com pro nahrání obrázku a pak odkaz na tento obrázek na Imguru zkopírovat a vložit sem.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Je tento text k dispozici v systému pro překládání? Pokud ano, byl přeložen před více než 24 hodinami?
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Google Chrome v77
• Prosím popiš svůj návrh přesně a konzistentně, aby bylo snadné pochopit, co máš na mysli.
I have accidentally discarded the most important card in my hand a couple times and have seen several others do the same after a 10 is played. The trash icon just isn't quite obvious enough. I believe it would be a better experience if discard buttons were added for each of the cards to provide a bit more awareness. That or somehow make that discard a two-click choice.• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Google Chrome v77
Historie hlášení
We all did that mistake (I did it too, and so did all beta-testeurs :P ), playing too fast. In some other games, that can be annoying too.
The policy in BGA on the matter is not to matronize the players who must learn by themselves. The responsability of playing fast and potentially making a mistakes lays on the player, not the game.
So I won't do anything about that.
When you get more experience on this game, you will soon not do that mistake again, trust me :)
Thanks!
Woodruff
BGA dev policy allows for confirmation dialogs in important states, and this is a good place for one. You spend a lot of ressources for confirmations when a pawn eats pawns of its own team; I think the "10-discard confirmation" is even more important
Still, one confirmation every 13 cards is too much (because there are 4 tens in a deck of 52) is too much and would break the fluidity of the game. And as a rule of thumb, confirmation dialogs need to be used scarcely.
Whereas a confirmation for self eating or teammate eating is justified because it does not occur that much.
To sum that up, the drawback of this loss of time on each game would not be compensated with the reduced amount of mistakes done by the players.
I cannot content everybody so I need to do some compromises like this... Sorry.
Thanks for your understanding.
Wood
Car, le problème principal ne réside absolument pas en une erreur de choix de la carte à défausser : les joueurs défaussent une carte alors qu'il croyaient sélectionner une carte pour jouer comme lors d'un tour normal. Parce les icônes placées au-dessus des cartes ne sont ni visibles, ni compréhensibles. Quand j'ai vu l'icône censée représenter une poubelle pour la première fois, j'ai pensé qu'il pouvait s'agir soit d'un temple, soit du nombre III en chiffres romains, et je l'ai ignorée puisque je n'en comprenais pas la signification.
Quand c'est son tour de jouer, un joueur pense qu'il peut sélectionner une carte en toute sécurité, puisque normalement cette sélection peut toujours être annulée. En cas de défausse par l'effet d'un Dix, il n'y a pas de sélection, la carte part directement à la défausse au premier clic : c'est tout à fait anormal et non cohérent avec le reste de l'interface. Ce qui fait qu'un joueur peut voir partir la carte qu'il comptait jouer ; ce qui peut être désastreux si cette carte était son seul Roi ou As, et que le joueur n'a aucun pion en jeu.
Une confirmation de la carte à défausser me me paraît donc incontournable. Cette confirmation pourrait consister dans un deuxième clic sur la carte mise en évidence à l'issue du premier clic. Le joueur peut donc toujours sélectionner une autre carte à défausser en l'absence de confirmation, et la perte de temps pour effectuer le deuxième clic est totalement négligeable en regard des erreurs qui seront ainsi évitées.
Il faut prendre son temps et ne pas jouer en mode automatique c'est tout.
Défausser une carte ou la jouer, ce n'est pas pareil, comme c'est le cas en IRL. Il ne faut pas miser sur le fait qu'on va jouer forcément.
La machine ne doit pas remplacer le cerveau de celui qui l'utilise :P
Pour tous les autres coups, lorsque nous choisissons une carte, il reste une étape de "validation" lorsque nous choisissons ensuite le pion, puis validons sa case d'arrivée.
Ne pourrait-on pas valider la carte défaussée après un 10 en ayant à cliquer sur le tas de cartes au centre du plateau?
Je joue avec des amis chaque semaine, et c'est vraiment LE point faible du jeu. Nous avons même pris la décision entre nous d'annoncer à l'avance lorsque nous allons jouer un dix pour que le joueur suivant ne joue pas trop vite. Malgré cela, par habitude de jeu, il arrive que nous oublions de l'annoncer à voix haute et qu'un joueur se fasse quand même avoir.
Valider une carte après un 10, comme nous avons la possibilité de valider n'importe quel action du jeu, ne me paraît donc pas forcément anormal: pour reprendre une phrase plus haut "Quand c'est son tour de jouer, un joueur pense qu'il peut sélectionner une carte en toute sécurité, puisque normalement cette sélection peut toujours être annulée. "
But in this case it really just doesn't apply, and blaming it on people not paying attention and playing too fast is honestly a rather bad argument here.
The problem here isn't that you're playing too fast. The problem is that it's an action that otherwise wouldn't have resulted in any move at all. Any other turn you can go ahead and click the card you think you'll want to use while at the same time thinking about your move. You can be thinking very carefully about every move you make and still make this mistake, because you were simply still looking at what your options are.
And, you say you want to keep the confirmation out to keep the fluidity of the game going, but in doing so, are penalizing players who actually are trying to keep the pace up and play fast.
For me at least, and I'm sure it's the same for plenty of other players. Not having the confirmation box breaks the fluidity of the game way more than the box itself would. Having fluidity to a game relies on players knowing instinctively how the interface works and how it responds to their actions. Having it respond differently in different situations means players can no longer rely on instincts and muscle memory to make their turns, breaking that fluidity, not adding to it.
Now, instead of one occasional extra click, I'm having to double check that I'm not accidentally discarding on every single turn before I can continue to think about my move. Taking me out of the game and my thought process, making my thinking time for every move significantly longer.
This is especially true in cases where I already know what my next move will be before the previous player had played their turn. Instead of multitasking and getting my own turn halfway started while I'm looking at what the previous player did, I'm having to stop in my tracks and double check for fear of a mistake.
I know what card I want to click, I know where it's located on the screen, the only reason I have to even look at my cards directly before starting my turn is because on some few turns there might be these tiny markers that would cause me to accidentally discard.
It's not that you would be adding a confirmation step to the 10s. It's that now, every move has a confirmation step EXCEPT the discards. Making it unfair and less fun to play for not just less experienced players, but also people trying to play fast, as well as the more casual players who might not have their full attention on the game at all times (which is a significant group who should be taken into consideration for a place like this).
If you don't want to add a confirmation box, and the very least make the fact that you're discarding more easily visible. Enough that it is obvious in a quick glance, instead of having to actually look for the markers to check.
Doplňte tuto zprávu
- ID dalšího stolu / ID tahu
- Byla chyba odstraněna stisknutím F5?
- Objevila se tato chyba častěji? Pokaždé? Náhodně?
- Pokud máš snímek obrazvky zobrazující tuto chybu (doporučujeme!), můžeš použít Imgur.com pro nahrání obrázku a pak odkaz na tento obrázek na Imguru zkopírovat a vložit sem.