#50676: "Add Confirm and/or undo button for all action steps that are able"
Čeho se toto hlášení týká?
Co se stalo? Prosím vyberte níže
Co se stalo? Prosím vyberte níže
Prosím zkontroluj, zda již neexistuje hlášení pro stejnou věc
Pokud ano, HLASUJ pro toto hlášení. Hlášení s nejvyšším počtem hlasů budou řešena PŘEDNOSTNĚ!
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Detailní popis
• Prosím, zkopíruj a vlož hlášení o chybě, které vidíš na monitoru, pokud to lze.
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• Prosím popiš, co jsi měl v úmyslu udělat, co jsi udělal a co se nakonec stalo
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Safari v14.1
• Prosíme, zkopíruj/vlož text zobrazený v angličtině namísto tvého jazyka. Pokud máš snímek obrazvky zobrazující tuto chybu (doporučujeme!), můžeš použít Imgur.com pro nahrání obrázku a pak odkaz na tento obrázek na Imguru zkopírovat a vložit sem.
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• Je tento text k dispozici v systému pro překládání? Pokud ano, byl přeložen před více než 24 hodinami?
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Safari v14.1
• Prosím popiš svůj návrh přesně a konzistentně, aby bylo snadné pochopit, co máš na mysli.
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Safari v14.1
• Co bylo zobrazeno na monitoru, když došlo k tvému zablokování? (Černá obrazovka? Část herního prostředí? Hlášení o chybě?)
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Safari v14.1
• Která část pravidel nebyla dodržena adaptací hry na BGA
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• Je vidět porušení pravidel na záznamu hry? Pokud ano, ve kterém tahu?
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Safari v14.1
• O jakou herní akci ses pokoušel/a?
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• Co ses pokoušel/a udělat, abys spustil/a tuhle herní akci?
• Co se stalo, když ses o tuto akci pokusil/a (vyskočila chybová hláška, lišta ve hře, ...)?
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Safari v14.1
• V jaké fázi hry problém nastal (jaký byl poslední herní pokyn)?
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• Co se stalo, když ses pokusil/a udělat akci (chybová hláška, oznámení stavového řádku hry, ...)?
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Safari v14.1
• Prosím popište vyobrazený problém. Pokud máš snímek obrazvky zobrazující tuto chybu (doporučujeme!), můžeš použít Imgur.com pro nahrání obrázku a pak odkaz na tento obrázek na Imguru zkopírovat a vložit sem.
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Safari v14.1
• Prosíme, zkopíruj/vlož text zobrazený v angličtině namísto tvého jazyka. Pokud máš snímek obrazvky zobrazující tuto chybu (doporučujeme!), můžeš použít Imgur.com pro nahrání obrázku a pak odkaz na tento obrázek na Imguru zkopírovat a vložit sem.
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• Je tento text k dispozici v systému pro překládání? Pokud ano, byl přeložen před více než 24 hodinami?
• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Safari v14.1
• Prosím popiš svůj návrh přesně a konzistentně, aby bylo snadné pochopit, co máš na mysli.
It can be very frustrating to click accidentally somewhere. Please consider incorporating a confirm or undo button. Thanks for working on this!• Jaký prohlížeč používáte?
Safari v14.1
Historie hlášení
1) It goes against BGA's undo policy: boardgamearena.com/doc/BGA_Undo_policy
2) Implementing this in a clean way (i.e. a way that doesn't force all players' browsers to reset) is a significant undertaking and the effort doesn't justify the benefit
Sorry, we really would like an easy way to make this happen. It's a frequent requests on all games I've seen.
'To know if this is a good idea to propose an undo, ask yourself the question: "when playing in real life, will my opponents authorize me to take back this move?". Depending on your answer, you should choose to provide an Undo, to not provide an Undo, or maybe to propose an Undo as an option for the game.'
Similarly, they mention Tzolk'in (a significantly lighter weight game) as an example of "Games with a complex serie of actions are an "exception" to BGA Undo policy."
Lastly, I'll note the guidelines state, 'To conclude: we may allow a player to undo a move caused by a "misclick", but we shouldn't allow a player to undo a bad move he plays consciously.'
Gaia Project already has a very nice undo/confirm for the Convert process, for example -- I am very glad this was implemented.
Off the top of my head, that list includes things like the Nevlas free action, but I don't think it includes anything that involves the map or board.
Fortunately, confirmations are required at key points to prevent misclicks, which are usually the same points at which real life players would allow you to change your move anyway. ("I didn't mean to put these satellites here... let me rethink those... oh, and take this federation tile instead.")
As mentioned, I understand this is a common request on *many* games.
Maybe let us roll back conversions as long as possible (ressources gained that way have not been used, same round)? Actually got me by surprise that it is not possible, since I'm used to it from TM.
E.g. when charging power due to tech gain, it is not possible to undo in order to do conversions.
I second the suggestion of implementing the undo as in Terra Mystica.
"As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves.
"Undo are painful for opponents, in real world and online. Some players may also use Undo to 'test' situations while they should just think instead.
"In many cases, proposing an 'Undo' means also adding an extra step, which is not good for the game interface."
While we are aware that TM is a similar game, it doesn't override BGA's undo policy. Even if it did, implementing undo isn't simply a copy-paste from their code. The good news it that BGA is pretty open with allowing additions to their code base, so it's possible an industrious fan may come along in the future and add it in.
I also greatly dislike not being able to undo my conversions during my turn like I can in TM, to echo Babbuc49.
Please, please. please reconsider implementing this at some point. TM wasn't perfect when it first launched on here either, and it took years of feedback and tweaks to get it to where it is now, which is very well regarded.
I can't imagine GP going into Beta then Full release won't create many suggestions for an undo button from users who are used to having that option in TM and other heavier euros on here.
All that being said, thank you so much for getting GP on here lol.
- Games on BGA are originally designed to be played with physical components. There is an error source in a game like Gaia Project that would never happen in real life. Those are small things like picking the wrong Academy or upgrading the wrong building. The player has a visual disconnect between boardstate and question dialogue, especially their own player board. In a physical game, the player would have taken the right piece in the first place. Undo is a good solution to give the player the opportunity to inspect the boardstate that they would much more actively create in a physical game.
- Gaia Project is, especially in the first two rounds, quite punishing if you do something wrong. It can mean that you already know the entire 2-3 hours of playing the game will result in a loss.
- Playing with my gaming group once every week digitally (because of corona), Analysis Paralysis skyrockets for games that have no undo.
- Not offering Undo is a cardinal sin of User Experience Design uxdesign.cc/always-have-a-back-button-4007e124cefa . All the usual reasons for this apply. (In the link, even a real time computer game like DOTA implemented an undo)
- BGA says "Users have to think". But Users should think about awesome strategies or how to improve our world or the multitude of things that happen in their life, not how to make sure they won't commit an error (that usually would not happen in the real game.
Their policy is half the reason I'm not implementing undo for Gaia Project. The other half is that I don't want to volunteer 16 hours to implement a feature that I don't feel is needed, though I'm not personally opposed to the idea if industrious fan comes along in the future and adds it in. Like most optional features, having an extra one doesn't really affect me.
- clicking research station instead of Planetary Institute.
- Misclicking approve conversion button while confirming from phone.
Of course with each game you become more careful. Still it is a long/planning game, even experienced players can do mistakes. It is a pity when game becomes a drag for the person that committed the mistake.
Stuff like converting resources to try and build a 4th research station, or not realising the planet you wanted to build a mine on had just been taken by another player.
The link you provided detailes a relatively simple (but ugly) undo using undoSavePoint, which could even be an optional feature like you say.
Nevertheless: Thanks so much for implementig one of my all time favourite games on this site :-)
Like many players around here, I think an undo button, at least for conversion steps, would be a good idea. It doesn't have any impact on other players turns and fast clicks do happen... Not having an undo button at this step feels like over-punishing, the game is already complex and punishing enough if you take bad decisions, this should not be an additionnal punishment. :)
+1 to the remarks comparing to TM...
"As a rule of thumb, on BGA we advise you to not undo moves.
"Undo are painful for opponents, in real world and online. Some players may also use Undo to 'test' situations while they should just think instead.
"In many cases, proposing an 'Undo' means also adding an extra step, which is not good for the game interface."
I believe this conversation has run its course. I would invite those interested in in changing the policy to comment here instead: boardgamearena.com/bug?id=13887
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